Would God Allow His Bride to Go Through the Great Tribulation (And Why)?
Feb 10, 2010 · Posted in Discernment, Great Tribulation, Rapture, Wormwood/Planet X“God would not allow his bride to go through the Great Tribulation!”
I could not possibly tell you how many times I have been told this, or asked it (rhetorically). Most of the time it comes from a staunch pretribber who is not really wanting to find a solution to the dilemma he thinks this question portrays. He is assuming a pretrib rapture is needed for the sake of the “dainty” Bride of Christ.
The question itself belies a lack of Biblical literacy or understanding on a couple points. (That is not a put down. I remember how many more ideas seemed plausible until I started studying diligently in 1999.) There is a common misunderstanding on what the Great Tribulation is and what it is not. There is another misunderstanding on what we as believers should expect in our life of service to God. Let us address both of these misunderstandings to answer the question at hand properly and in concordance with the Bible.
“Not Appointed to Wrath?” The Great Tribulation is not God’s Wrath
The above question is typically backed up with the verse that “we’re not appointed to wrath” as proof that the bride will not go through the Great Tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (HCSB) — For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
What those who quote this verse assume is that the Great Tribulation is God’s wrath. It is not. It is Satan’s wrath. The Bible tells us that Satan’s wrath begins when he is finally barred from entry to heaven.
Revelation 12:12 (ESV) — Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Today, as in the days of Job, Satan can still go and accuse the brethren. When he is barred from entering, it will be his signal to begin his short time (3½ years) of wrath. This lasts from the 5th trumpet until the 7th trumpet. (For brevity’s sake I will not expound that out here. But my book proves that the 6th seal through 4th trumpet are all a series of related events caused by doomsday star Wormwood, and that the 5th trumpet is the start of the Great Tribulation).
Thus, Satan’s reign, and his wrath with it, end with the 7th trumpet. Then God’s wrath picks up where Satan’s wrath left off:
Revelation 11:15, 18 (NIV) — 15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet…18 The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great– and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
God’s wrath comes exclusively through the seven bowls. It begins after the 7th trumpet and is “filled up” or “made complete” by the 7th bowl:
Revelation 15:1,7 (NIV) — 1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues–last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever.
Thus, if we are not appointed to the wrath of God, then that only means we must be out of here by the 7th trumpet before that starts. And that is exactly when the rapture comes, at the “last trump” (KJV):
1 Corinthians 15:52 (HCSB) — in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
“Appointed To Afflictions or Tribulation”
While we are not appointed to wrath and will be rewarded with being born again (John 3:3-8) into a glorified spirit body by then, we do have “endure until the end” (Mt 24:13) through much trouble.
As a lifelong reader and student of the Bible, it really is odd for me to hear Christians claim that “God would never put his precious bride through the terrible tribulation.” Whenever I hear this, I wonder if they are not among the 95% of Christians who have not read their Bible. Because when I read the stories of the saints throughout the OT and NT, I consistently see lives full of trouble, affliction and persecution. Even the ultra-righteous Job has his share.
Or when I look out at the world today I see many lands where there is not freedom of religion. In them, Christians today are living in great tribulation. There is a common saying based on this that only rich Western Christians could possibly imagine a pretrib rapture saving us from the Great Tribulation. God has not saved any of those being murdered today for the truth and the pretrib rapture theory to them clashes with reality. They are dying already for their faith in the present tribulations.
If you look around at conditions on the ground now and previously in Bible times you see God does not seem to be a doting father who “shelters” his children. He lets us face troubles head on and does not save us typically until the last moment after we have cried out passionately for help (much like the Red Sea crossing).
A few verses will suffice in demonstrating this truth plainly:
Acts 14:22 (KJV) — Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 (KJV) 3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. 4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Why Must We Suffer, Anyway?
Now you may wonder why does God work this way with us? This is actually the same as the classic question of “why does God allow suffering?” For the Great Tribulation is just a global and more intense class of suffering at the hands of a Satanic government than we already have had throughout history unto this day.
Most Western Christians do not read their Bible (less than 5% according to Back to the Bible). Their expectations for what their life with God will be like are thus based mainly on their experience of playing church in a rich society with freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The concept of real suffering for your faith (which is not simply being put down or having your beliefs ridiculed now and then by skeptics and atheists) is unknown to them in general. Because of this paradigm, when they finally read the Bible, they have a hard time understanding or accepting what they read about suffering experienced by saints or the promises of the same for us, too.
God has a good reason. The Bible is not silent on the reason. This prophetic verse is one that covers it:
Daniel 11:33,35 (HCSB) — 33 Those who are wise among the people will give understanding to many, yet they will die by sword and flame, and be captured and plundered for a time. 35 Some of the wise will fall so that they may be refined, purified, and cleansed until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
This “fall” spoken of clearly refers to suffering persecution and martyrdom. It is to refine us and make us better. This is how God builds his character, makes his Bride ready (Rev 19:7). It even was necessary for Jesus, the firstborn Son of God:
Hebrews 5:8 (HCSB) — Though He was ⌊God’s⌋ Son, He learned obedience through what He suffered.
If you are rich, distracted and therefore spiritually poor and blind, trials are the specific prescription that Jesus gives for us as well.
Revelation 3:17-18 (HCSB) — 17 Because you say, ‘I’m rich; I have become wealthy and need nothing,’ and you don’t know that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire so that you may be rich, white clothes so that you may be dressed and your shameful nakedness not be exposed, and ointment to spread on your eyes so that you may see.
It’s no mystery what “going through the fire” refers to. It means suffering. The Book of James is well known as a source of meaning and comfort on this topic:
James 1:2-4, 12 (HCSB) — 2 Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing. 12 A man who endures trials is blessed, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.
God’s Terrestrial Escape Plan For the Great Tribulation
The “Bride of Christ” can bring to mind an image of a dainty maiden, one who cannot withstand hardship. However, that is not the point of the metaphor. The point is that we must be “virginally pure” (Rev 14:4) or ready (Rev 19:7). Being pure of what makes us ready? We’re pure or righteous in God’s sight as long as we trust in his word intending to follow it (Lk 8:21; Gen 15:6). Our own ideas, man’s religion, man’s ideas, our own thoughts that conflict with or distract us from serving God are the problem. Only those who have shown a steadfastness in following God throughout all kinds of tests and temptations are suitable for the Kingdom of God. Thus, ironically, the method by which we become the Bride every day is exactly what pretrib rapture proponents believe God must not put us through (globally) if we are the bride!
The Bible says and demonstrates repeatedly that we must go through much trouble to make us ready. This builds our character, purges our sin nature and increase our faith and wisdom (James 1:1-12). This is the same process that Christ himself went through. The Great Tribulation is just more of the same, except on a global and intensified scale. Therefore it is improper to deny we will go through the Great Tribulation because God would not subject his bride to such a terrible time. He does every day!
Besides all that, the End Time escape plan of God revealed in the Bible is to protect his bride on the earth through the Great Tribulation. He will guide us to a protected place that Satan cannot reach and feed us during the three and a half year Great Tribulation:
Revelation 12:14 (HCSB) — The woman was given two wings of a great eagle, so that she could fly from the serpent’s presence to her place in the wilderness, where she was fed for a time, times, and half a time.
It will be a time of great wonders and community that has not been seen since the First Century, as described in Acts 2. For this reason, I am looking forward to the Great Tribulation without any fear at all. And so should you once you know the truth from the Bible on the matter.
So, “comfort each other with these words” just as Paul said to the Thessalonians (1Th 4:18). By the way, those are the same Thessalonians who Paul instructed on our rapture after the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation appear (2The 2:1-4).
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Well put Brother! No matter how you spell it out, there are those who will still be blind and not see and be offended when Tribulation comes and that they have not been “Raptured”. You quoted it best by stating the 1Cor 15:51-52 verse! To them, it still will be a mystery! I like your post about the Tribulum from antiquity Rome, and how it is a weight that is applied to the wheat to remove the seed and separate it from the chaff! I think I saw that post on here. Anyways Thanks again Tim, I look forward to getting your Books, Know the Future, The Mystery of Disunity and Road Map! They will no boubt be worth their weight in GOLD!
Shalom, Mateo =)
You sure get a A+ on this one old buddy.But remember I was the only kid that ever flunked “Vacation Bible School” Chas.
Tim,I thank God for the insight He has given you. I have shared it with many, but few have received it. I compare it to telling the unsaved that Jesus is God. It has given me great peace. I hope to see you in Jerusalem. Thanks again, Steven
It is sad that ‘Churchers’ have so much fellowship time on account but so little true understanding in heart. Seems pretty basic to us that have studied and followed your thinking on these matters, what God intends toward the End. This article is also well stated and easily understood. How could anyone that has read their Bible think the body will not suffer? Has any believer gone through their entire life without? Bless God for your efforts to simplify the facts of Truth, and also for Him, making them so very accessible for us in His Word.
Hi Tim,
great article only I don’t agree with the statement
The Bible says and demonstrates repeatedly that we must go through much trouble to refine our character, purify us from sin and build our faith. This is the same process that Christ himself went through.
It may be the same process yet Christ Jesus was without sin.
As our sins were paleced on Him at the cross in Calvery.
It’s not the process but to say that Jesus Christ had to be purified of sin is wrong.
Thanks
John Stead
John, thanks. I think my words could have been clearer. But certainly I was not saying Jesus had sin! And certainly none of us have our sin removed by suffering. However, he was purified from sinfulness or the temptation to sin just as we were. That’s what “he learned obedience through suffering” refers to. Obedience is the opposite of sin or disobedience to the law of God.
I’ve updated the article to choose a clearer wording.
Thanks Tim,
Sorry if you thought I was knit picking but Brother there is a lot of error in today’s so called church. I’ve had a gutful of lies, deceptions and half truths. Please forgive me if I offended you or anyone else I’ts just that I don’tlike seeing Jesus Christ depicted as something that He is not. He is our Lord and Saviour, He alone deserves our respect and reverence.
God Bless
John
Not at all. You helped me to clarify my meaning.
Maybe next time instead of assuming one of the possible meanings intended and stating you disagree, step back and consider the multiple possible meanings that the literal language allows. By looking for all the possible meanings you will help with your own offense. Then you can still help me and go ahead and ask me to clarify which one was intended because it seems unclear.
Shalom Tim,
Great post! I put together a short article recently that fits fairly well with your perspective on this subject (you may disagree in part of course). It basically connects the use of the “tribulum” farm board with what tribulation’s purpose is for separating out the usable/storable seed.
http://jewsandjoes.com/what-is-tribulation-and-who-is-tribulation-for.html
What you have said here is a good representation of what Scripture is trying to tell us today. I pray the church will be ready but I fear she is not and that is prophetic too.
Tim,
I am so happy you expounded on this critical belief. I perceive it will be a rude awakening for those who believe in the pretribulation dogma.
The pretrib dogma, as is “once saved always saved”, is actually only about 150 years old brought about by John Nelson Darby. C. I. Scofield and John Newberry were Darby’s contemporaries. I venture to say, the three of them, and others, really wreaked havoc upon the KJV Bible.
I studied for 30 years from the Scofield and his additions to and deletions from the KJV reads like a fairy tale. The Scofield is not for babes in the Lord.
Here is one site you can read of some Darby’s changes:
http://tinyurl.com/ykzaw5d
Here is another: http://tinyurl.com/yf54lqr
I have a question concerning Planet X, but I will post that in the Escape All These Things forum.
Again, Tim, thank you and I really enjoyed this commentary.
I don’t understand the point of suffering to learn obedience if we will get new glorified bodies and be unable to sin. I don’t think I fully understand the point of this life following the same logic. Not that I don’t understand in part.
I have not found a verse that says we are “unable to sin” by nature in the kingdom. I think the temptation to sin will largely be removed, yes, being no longer flesh. But not completely. Look at Satan, a spirit who went astray through vanity.
But how can we be rewarded with eternal life until we have proven to be someone who does not want to sin anymore by passing through such tests of obedience? Remember how Abraham was tested ten (?) times and rewarded after God said “Don’t kill Isaac. For now I know you fear God!”? We, too, must learn that sin does not work by experiencing it and coming to the point where we no longer want to do it and it is maybe only the flesh pulling at is that makes us sin at all. Remove the flesh and we probably will not sin anymore in the Kingdom as glorified spirit-bodied sons of God and brothers of Jesus.
I Thank You Pastor Tim. I believe it is time for all of us to get our noses in the book to share with others. I’m trying to get as much understanding as possible from Teachers and Leaders. So far yourself and Pastor Jack Hayford is also doing a series right now. Any other resources you can direct me too would be great. I am unemployed right now so my finances are a bit limited. Any suggestions?
It has been strongly noted by other Bible interpreters that the churches in Revelations are not mentioned again after the introductory message concerning the churches. That the woman flown to safety is actually Israel. There has always been a belief that the destiny’s of Israel and the church are completely separate and not intertwined.
In fact it is not the church preaching the Gospel in Revelations, but the 144,000 of Israel.
Apart from this, I so far find your commentaries illuminating and beneficial. They also concur with what God is revealing to me personally about the Lord’s soon return. In fact, so much so, my opposition to Harold Camping’s prediction for a rapture next year was waning from corroborated testimonies. How ever, your expounding on the last trump is agreeable to my personal theology as I believe God will definitely want to refine the church to enter the kingdom.
Besides, how will we live in eternity with mayrters and prophets who went through so much with our heads held high unless we do know persecution. I for one want to be able to face them, let alone our crucified Lord.
Thanks for your kind comment. It sounds like you are advocating a pretrib rapture. However, a pretrib rapture is not necessary to explain why no church is mentioned after the letters at the start of Revelation or to prove that the Woman is not Israel. My book covers this if you are open to looking at the rapture timing question from rapture timing verses only, not side arguments like you covered.
Well am not here to agrgue but brothers and sisters you are in Error.What happened to the verses…” One will be taken the other left?”…To Daniel 12:1-2″At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people,will arise.There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the begining of Nations until then(do you pple dont see the distress upon Nations?.. or which conditions are you living in? just to point at something unique or profound that caught everyones eye,doesnt matter whether a christians,non beliver or other follwers of diffrent faith, What happened to Tne Nation of Haiti was breath taking and IT WAS A STUNNING WARNING TO THE NATIONS TO REPENT AND RETURN TO THE LORD.)But at that time (WHICH TIME?TIME OF DISTRESS)your people -everyone whose name is found written in the book of life- will be delivered( ASK YOU SELF FROM WHAT?THE WRATH THAT IS TO FOLLOW SEE 1THESOLONIANS1:10).PEOPLE GET READY JESUS IS COMING
Tim , According to the Bible the casting out of Satan from Heaven is under the Seventh Trumpet, not the Fifth Trumpet. That the Seventh Trumpet blows in the middle of the Week is clear from the fact that there is only a period of forty-two months(Rev.11:2;13:5),1260 day’s(Rev.11:3;12:6), or three and one half years(Rev.12;14) from the blowing of the Seventh Trumpet to the end of the Week. Wormwood is under the Third Trumpet and it only effects the water(Rev.8:10-11). The Seventh Trumpet is not the same as “the last trump” which sounds at the time of the Rapture. Paul knew nothing about the Trumpet Judgments in which John wrote about years later.This all proves that that the Seventh Trumpet kicks off the Great Tribulation, and not the Fifth Trumpet as you claim. The casting out of Satan from Heaven, the flight of the woman into the wilderness, the persecution of the remnant, the rise of the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the Earth, will all happen and will all be completed under the Seventh Trumpet according to the Bible. If we are to go through the Great Tribulation to make us virginally pure or ready then this totaly takes away from the finished work of Christ on the Cross. We are pure and righteous in God’s sight by putting our faith in the shed blood of Jesus. Only the blood of Christ makes us suitable for the Kingdom of God, nothing we do or go thru. You say that the Bible say’s and demonstrates repeatedly that we must go through much trouble to make us ready. You say that this builds our character,purges our sin nature and increase our faith and wisdom. You say that this is the same process that Christ went through. Christ was sinnless and had no sin nature so it wasn’t the same and doesn’t compare. You are getting everyday trials and tribulations mixed up with The Tribulation Period. This isn’t the same either. You say that it is improper to deny we will go through the Great Tribulation because God would not subject His bride to such a terrible time. And then you turn around and say besides all that, the end time escape plan of God revealed in the Bible is to protect His bride on the Earth through the Great Tribulation. He will guide us to a protected place that Satan cannot reach and feed us during the three and a half year Great Tribulation. So do we go through or we protected?
Jesus didn’t need purification. He was already without sin. To be purified He would of had to have sin in His life. That is impossible or He could not of been the perfect sacrifice. Jesus is fully God as much as He is fully man. He has two natures.
I think you meant, “according to My interpretation”…not “according to the Bible.” =) Satan is cast from the earth into an abyss after the 7th bowl, but he is first cast from Heaven to the earth at the 5th trumpet. Go study Revelation carefully and you’ll see this borne out. You have to compare Rev 9 and Rev 12 and all the parts mentioning the woes. 7th trumpet = 3rd woe, 5th = 1st woe, Rev 12 mentions woes. Rev 9 is the 5th trumpet. It’s pretty solid.
It takes nothing from Christ. Christ did his work already. Now we need to do ours, growing in grace and knowledge and “to him who overcometh” (Rev 2-3).
To pretribbers, telling them we are going to be on the earth for the GT is “going through the Tribulation”. You’re not going to be in your current home, with your current lifestyle and amenities. It will require great sacrifice, a concept that most Americans don’t know the meaning of. Having moved to a ex-third world country/developing nation, I know what going through tribulation is about. God’s escape plan will still be a tribulation as having his protection will require obedience to his instructions that won’t be easy.
The Seventh Trumpet sounds in v.15 of chapter 11 in Rev. The Fifth Trumpet only say’s that a star(angel) falls from heaven and was given the key to the bottomless pit releasing these locusts upon the earth. But under the Seventh Trumpet starting with Rev.12:7-10 is a very clear discription that Satan is cast out here and not under the Fifth Trumpet. He wasn’t cast out twice. Two different incidences, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE!!! One Woe in Ch.12 and only to the inhabiters of the earth.
Again, according to your interpretation. You have to learn to separate the two or your going to frustrate yourself with how dumb or evil everyone else is for not being able to read or obey the Bible like you!
There is no 7th trumpet in Rev 12. Rev 12:7-10 is the same fall from heaven as Rev 9 the abyss. Yes, it says star in Rev 9 to throw you off. But keep reading. It refers to the leader of the abyss, the “angel” at the end. That angel is Satan who descends with the key and opens the abyss. God gives him permission when he kicks him out of heaven and begin his grand delusion.
Rev.12 is under the Seventh Trumpet which sounds in ch 11 v.15. Man put the chapters and verses in the Bible. You are playing with my words. I didn’t say that the Seventh Trumpet sounded in Rev.12. Read it again.
Aha! I see where we are missing each other. You are under the impression that Rev 12 is part of the chronological narrative of 21 events (seals trumpets and bowls) that begins in Revelation 6 with the seals. You don’t seem to realize that Rev 12 is an inset chapter that shows history from before Jesus was born up until the Great Tribulation (5th trumpet). It is not a continuation of the 7th trumpet at the end of Rev 11. Oops!
So whats under the Seventh Trumpet Judgment?
First of all, it’s not a judgment, no where called that. The 7 bowls are alone explicitly called God’s wrath or judgments in Rev 15. The seals and trumpets show 14 other developments or events on the path toward the kingdom.
The 7th trumpet, or last trump, fulfills the Feast of Trumpets and marks the same celestial disturbances that Mt 24 describes at the end of the Great Tribulation. It also heralds the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the living in Christ. Like Rev 11, it’s to “reward” the saints. So there is no judgment at the 7th trumpet, just a reward and a warning to those “left behind”
Skip to Rev 15 to continue the narrative and then you see those raptured up in heaven on the sea of glass. The seven bowl angels pass by on their way to dropping the seven bowls on the earth. Skip to Revelation 19 after the Rev 17+18 inset chapters to see the Day of the Lord/Yom Kippur when the bowls finish with the defeat of the Beast’s armies. Rev 20 starts the Millennium with Satan cast into the abyss (and his fallen angels too), to fulfill the Feast of Tabernacles.
Tim,
I know now that there is no rapture and that we will have to go through the Tribulation. I’ve known that for awhile now. I’ve done my research. However, the thought of it scares me to the core, and I think those that have already died are very lucky. My family is deadset on the rapture happening, and I’m scared for them and myself, for they might not survive and I may be alone. Being only sixteen years old (+7 years in between), I don’t think I’m going be able to make it on my own. I want to trust God, but like you said, obedience is going to be difficult, and one of my main obstacles in my faith is trusting God. I’m afraid for the unsaved part of my family and the ‘rapture’ side of my family whose faith might give away when they realize there is no such thing. I feel like such a coward. Do you have any words of advice for me? Thank you so much.
Brianna,
If you read Tim’s Book “Know the Future” you will see there is an escape for the elect. Now go buy and read the book.
Praise God for giving His gift of teaching to you Tim! And bless you bro for your obedience to Him and His word. I’ve found it very refreshing to read your articles, which beautifully bring together a lot of the bible passages and prophesies that I have been studying in a piecemeal way for many years.
It seems that some of the high profile pretrib bible teachers in the U.S. have a loud voice in Christian circles, but you offer a solid biblical (and i believe Holy Spirit inspired) refute to this. Thank you.