The 24 elders and the four living creatures were singing together the same song(Rev.5:8-10). If the 24 elders were redeemed from the earth the four living creatures must be also but were the four living creatures redeemed from the earth?
I believe that the two groups were celestial beings. Please compare the following versions.
The NASB was said to be from older manuscripts. What do you think? Thank you.
Jims

KJV
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

NASB
8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

Holman CSB
8 When He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals; because You were slaughtered, and You redeemed [people] for God by Your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.

Here is an example of God’s prerogative.

Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard. … “When those who were hired at about
the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’ So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen.”

We have to remember that after Christ and His Body/Bride have presented themselves
at the throne they have other dates to keep such as their Marriage and Marriage Supper,the Battle of Armageddon,His Crowning as Kings of kings and Lord of lords,etc.
Let His will be done. Alleluia !

Jims

1.the reason for Christ to descend to meet members of His
body in the air
2.the man child caught up to the throne is Christ who has
been united with members of His Body as one”complete
Christ”
3.the reason for the war in heaven where the dragon and his
angels will eventually be cast down to start his wrath or
the great tribulation
4.”came out of” as being removed from.

I am satisfied with your presentation but I have been wondering why members of His body do not have to go through the great tribulation. Thank you very much.

Grace

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Please notice that the Lord has to descend and the dead and alive have to ascend in order to meet. The reason that the dead and alive are not caught up directly to the throne to meet the Lord is that they are members of His body and that He is their Head. The Lord must be united with His body first before being caught up to the throne to present Himself as the “complete Christ” to God the Father. At last Head and Body are united as the “Man Child”. Another thing to note is that” and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Let us read “Rev.7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.” Isn’t the great multitude of Rev.7:9 the dead and alive in Christ being united and caught up to the throne?

When John saw the great multitude it was already there ! When did they arrive at the throne? According to the elder “These are they which came out of great tribulation,” “came out of” is defined as being removed from or not involved in.
In other words the great multitude had been removed from the great tribulation.
Wow ! The great multitude will not be involved in the 4th Seal which is the great tribulation.
Now let us turn to Rev.12 which described the scene just before and at the beginning of the great tribulation.

12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

Please note in verse 12:5 she(Israel) brought forth the man child who was the
“complete Christ” being united with His Body. If the child was caught up unto God He the child must have descended and then caught up. Let us continue on to 12:7

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,” The war happened because the dragon chased after the man child when the man child was caught up to God.

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Isn’t it clear that when the dragon/devil/satan is cast down from heaven with his angels the great tribulation is about to begin?

Anyone’s response is most welcome.

Jims

Grace.

The following is the 4th Seal. Please evplain when this Seal had already happened . Thks

Rev.6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Yes, the trumpet angels are God’s not Satan’s. But you misunderstand if you think the ones blowing the trumpets do anything more than that. They announce what is coming on the earth, they do not cause it. Satan is the author of the Great Tribulation that lasts from the 5th trumpet to the 7th trumpet.

Please compare with the following verses.

Rev.6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Satan will be given the power to kill one fourth of the world population;one and half million people including the saints? Had this happened before as far as Satan was concerned? Is it going to happen soon? Where are we now as far as His Seals are concerned? Please remember that there are only 7 Seals and the 7th seal is the most dreadful because it is God’s wrath upon Satan and his supporters worldwide. Where will be the Body of Christ when the great tribulation begins? Please stay tuned. Thank you.
Jims.